Comedians Marc Maron and Jimmy Pardo liken Adam Carolla fans to Rush Limbaugh dittoheads

I've often highlighted the comparisons between pundits and comedians. Pundits, like comedians are ultimately masters of their own fiefdoms. They create loyal followings of people supportive of their idol's world perspective. The fans of the comedian or pundit will usually share their affinity with their friends and associates and likewise share their animosity towards their rivals.

Whilst its expected across party lines i.e a liberal pundit dissing Rush Limbaugh's "dittoheads", there are also internecine feuds amongst conservative and liberal listeners. The most prominent of this is between Conservatives Mark Levin and Michael Savage, both pundits stir their passionate supporters into deriding their respective rivals. Whilst Levin and Savage have a heated rivalry between each other they also impassion their listeners against other competing conservative pundits.

During Comedian Jimmy Pardo's 'Never not Funny' podcast. The host Jimmy spoke to fellow comic and APF pundit Marc Maron, they discussed the listeners of fellow Comedian and Podcaster Adam Carolla and used an interesting pundit analogy to describe his belligerent fanbase. Carolla's fans are known for haranguing "rival" comedians on Carolla's unsolicited behalf

'Never not Funny' Episode 610 - Marc Maron
JIMMY PARDO: This is a horrible comparison... I would listen to Rush Limbaugh... I didn't always agree with what he said. Most of the time I didn't agree with anything he said. but to me he was an entertainer...

MARC MARON: (assisting) Engaging

PARDO: He was engaging, he would keep me company for 4 hours and he was fine. I didn't mind him. It was when the asshole callers would call in and they would just be "Why is the President feeding us lies" then Rush would say "You're wrong sir, here are my thoughts. Like everybody thought they would call up and kiss his ass, you know "Mega dittoes". Then he would say "No you're misunderstanding everything I'm saying"

MARON: (completes his sentence jokingly) "I did not say kill the President"

PARDO: Right (laughing). He's not the same now than he was back then mind you. Then he was just a broadcaster, now he truly thinks he is changing the world...

MARON: Now he's a monster

PARDO: and its the same with Carolla. I think Adam is a terrific broadcaster. He's got funny in his bones... he doesn't have to fake being funny. He's got it. But his listeners -- Not all of them! Some. I don't want to get those emails. A small percentage of them are these neanderthal idiots like - "You suck. Listen to Adam instead". You can listen to both. There's no rule that you can't listen to both.

- Listen and Download the full 'Never not Funny' Episode 610 podcast

Taking a page from wrestling and punditry Marc Maron cuts a promo, facetiously calling out Adam Carolla. Pardo's co-host and producer Matt Belknap sets the table by explaining why Carolla and his fanbase (what Maron calls "Carolla-tards) might be so angtsy.

MARC MARON: I like Adam. I've not listened to his show a lot. I did his show once years ago when Bonaduce was on and I'd love to do the show again. And I've got no problem with him but there's always this weird thing like "You're just doing Adam". And I'm like I don't even know what Adam does for the most part...

MATT BELKNAP: He gets some heat in certain circles for being a little conservative

MARC MARON: He probably calls himself libertarian though. Anyone who calls themselves libertarian are just Republicans who are little scared to say they're Republican now

BELKNAP: But I think that's what people want. They want to see you, you're political slant but the same style -- not the same style but the same energy go up against his energy

MARON: I'd love to do that because I don't even know what his politics are and I'm not really doing political talk anymore but I'm not aligned with any political party necessarily but I do think some things are righteous and some things aren't and I'd be curious to talk to him about that. I think I'd actually like to.

I keep doing this on podcasts, I'm like "I'm out on the streets man (laughter). Let's go Carolla!

Michael Savage calls out Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Reilly

MICHAEL SAVAGE: And yet here in America, I've had some people come to my aid. They see the bigger picture. They're not like [Bill] O'Reilly; they're not like Limbaugh, who's the biggest disappointment of all. Limbaugh has turned out to be the biggest phony of all of them, all of them. Amongst all of them, he is the biggest fraud. Rush Limbaugh is a fraud. When he was accused of the drug usage, I supported him. But that man is a one-way street. It's all about him. He's in it for nobody but himself.

John Amato of Crooks and Liars, sympathetic to the wrestling analogy quipped "Talk about a big pay-per-view gate" of Savage's wrestling style promo.

Crooks and Liars commenters followed suit, drawing the analogy further

I stopped watching professional wrestling when I was twelve.
Weiner vs. Limpballs is just like two professional wrestlers hyping a fight.

Weiner may also be making a switch to the left because that's where the money is these days. He sees the writing on the wall. He is just into his career.

There is certainly no love lost between the three pundits - Rush Limbaugh the pure conservative, Michael Savage and Bill O'Reilly self described "independents". All divisive and extremely influential talkers. Honoring the Triple Threat wrestling format here is a rundown of promos the pundits have leveled at each other.

Rush Limbaugh on his challengers
Limbaugh on Bill O'Reilly - "Somebody’s got to say it... the man is Ted Baxter"
Limbaugh on Michael Savage - "He’s not even in my rearview mirror"

Bill O'Reilly on his challengers
O'Reilly on Rush Limbaugh - Rush Limbaugh is a talk show host, they're not journalists
O'Reilly on Michael Savage - "far-right", "fringe", "smear merchant"

I've discussed previously how Michael Savage and Bill O'Reilly are arguably #1 and #2 when it comes to being uniformly marginalised by their talker peers, Limbaugh save for this outburst by Savage is usually granted some deference due to his overwhelming influence. But for sheer spectacle alone, it would be a pleasure to see all three pundits at each other's throats in a wrestling smackdown like so:

VIDEO: Randy Orton, Triple H and John Cena talk trash in a triple threat showdown

Michale Savage not content with calling out Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Reilly, also challenges Sean Hannity whom he refers to as "Wall Banger" and refers the Glenn Beck, the APF's fastest rising star as the "hemorrhoid with eyes". Only natural that a wrestling feud expand from a Triple Threat match to a Fatal Four Way.

VIDEO: Michael Savage on Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck

MICHAEL SAVAGE: Rush Limbaugh is the General Motors of Talk Radio, Wall Banger [Glenn Beck] is the Chrysler of Talk Radio and both of them have been propped up by TARP funds which is the Republican Party itself. If it was not for the TARP listenership of Republican Party boobs, Rush the General Motors of Talk Radio would have been out of business, Wall Banger... would have been out of business. I am the smallest one in the major leagues. I am the underdog and I will fight with everything in me against General Motors and the Chrysler of talk Radio and if they wanna start a war with me, well let's get it on my friends!

Michael Savage banned in Britain - Savage is "radical" compared to Bill O'Reilly, Mark Levin and Rush Limbaugh

Michael Savage banned in Britain

Michael Savage, generally considered the Number #3 talker behind Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh in influence and overall ratings has recently been blacklisted by the British placing him alongside religious extremists and radicals.

Michael Savage: Banned in Britain
The San Francisco-based Savage, known for his fiery right-wing views, is one of 22 people who have been banned from entering Britain since October, when the government here concluded that they were agents of extremism and intolerance...

Savage told the Internet site WorldNetDaily that he was considering legal action against Britain.

"Darn! And I was just planning a trip to England for their superior dental work and cuisine," he joked to the website. "Then it sank in, and I said, 'She said this is the kind of behavior we won't tolerate? She's linking me with mass murderers who are in prison for killing Jewish children on buses? For my speech? The country where the Magna Carta was created?'"

Michael Savage despite his influence is notable for being marginalised by both his left-wing and right-wing peers. Even the talker who comes closest to that distinction, Bill O'Reilly considers Michael Savage a radical.

Listen to a gleeful Mark Levin, taunt Savage over his British travel ban

VIDEO: Mark Levin responds to Michael Savage's British travel ban

Read a collection of talkers marginalising Michael Savage
- Rush Limbaugh saying "He’s not even in my rearview mirror" of Michael Savage
- Bill O'Reilly labels Michael Savage a "far-right", "fringe", "smear merchant"
- Liberal talker Sam Seder mocking Michael Savage

Listen to noted Savage rival, Mark Levin cut a promo on "Weiner Nation"

VIDEO: Mark Levin ridicules Michael "Weiner Nation" Savage

The APF well represented in the Top 10 list of anti-Barack Obama conservatives

Top 10 Anti- Obama Conservatives (2009)

The Telegraph UK recently featured a "Top 10 list of Anti President Obama conservatives". It comes as no surprise that 5 of the Top Ten were talkers on the American Pundit Fighting roster:
1. Rush Limbaugh
3. Sean Hannity
5. Michelle Malkin
7. Michael Savage
8. Ann Coulter

Each conservative on the list is given a light profile and includes a notable quote. My personal favourite, this profile for Sean Hannity that features a "wrestling like" promo

Top 10 anti-Barack Obama conservatives
3. Sean Hannity

The Fox News and talk radio host pursued Barack Obama relentlessly during the election campaign and has not let up since the Democrat's victory. Through sheer force of will, Hannity pushed Obama's William Ayers association into the political mainstream and he will undoubtedly remain one of the president's tormenters-in-chief for the next four or eight years.

Asked recently about Hannity, Obama said he was prepared to meet him. "I didn't know he had invited me for a beer, but I will take that under advisement...I'm always good for a beer," the president said.

Hours later, Hannity said he appreciated the president's gesture. "It seems like he's opened the door that he wants to meet with me," he told his listeners. "Now if he does, I would go on your behalf." Book a ringside seat and prepare for a YouTube classic if it ever happens.

Rush Limbaugh on Hannity and the rest of the competition

I touched on the New York Times' feature of Rush Limbaugh in a previous post. There is an interesting segment in the piece where Rush sounds off on his competition. Whilst there is a cordial respect amongst the higher profile pundits, there is also a serious rivalry.

Rush dismisses Michal Savage wholly, "He’s not even in my rearview mirror". Rush hesitantly concedes of Bill O'Reilly "somebody’s got to say it... the man is Ted Baxter". Here Rush and Keith Olbermann find a point of agreement.

VIDEO: Watch the fictional News anchorman, Ted Baxter in action

But the real tension comes with Sean Hannity, who comes closest in threatening Rush' mantle as the most influential talker in America.

Late-Period Limbaugh
Limbaugh has a deeply conflicted attitude toward Sean Hannity, his one-time stand in and now perpetual No. 2 on the Talkers list. He speaks of the younger man with the same condescending affection that Muhammad Ali once showed Jimmy Ellis, a former sparring partner turned challenger. But he wanted me to remember who is the Greatest. “I have no competitors,” he said. “Hannity isn’t even close to me.”

- Read the relevant page of the New York Times Feature
- Read the previous APF post on the feature

Sam Seder: when radio callers attack (then not)

I'd like to recap one of the more interesting calls between a caller and radio talker. It happened April 10, 2008 between Sam Seder and a caller named Joe. To provide context to the exchange, Sam was filling in for Randi Rhodes' timeslot after her sudden resignation from Air America. Sam had also received unfortunate news regarding his broadcasting future in an earlier program break. He learned of it not from his bosses but through internet chatter, much to Sam's frustration.

Sam described it as an "odd but somewhat entertaining call".

The exchange from Conservative Joe started off typically enough. Sam could only give the caller Joe a minute as a break was approaching.

You don't give Republicans much of a chance on your show do you? Only a minute huh.

You've been doing Talk Radio for 4 or 5 years and you haven't developed one single star. You don't have a Limbaugh, a Savage, a Hannity, a Boortz you don't have any of that...
You liberals take to talk radio like a Muslim takes to a Peace meeting.

I've got a lot more to say but I don't think you wanna hear it, you want everyone to pat you on the back, don't you?. To tell you how wonderful your liberalism is. But I wanna debate, are we on? Are you scared?

Sam Seder put the caller on hold. Postponing the fireworks till after the break, one would think.

Upon return, Joe began with the statement

I'm a rock-ribbed Republican

followed by

When you liberals talk about conservatives and always put us down you have some points...because the administration has trailed off dramatically

This was the first of many odd strings where Joe would telegraph a punch then veer in the opposite direction.

You talk as if everything is wrong with the Republicans and you Democrats are squeaky clean...with this primary Hillary Clinton has proven herself a racist along with Bill Clinton

(here comes the swerve)

against my man Barack

I would prefer people listened to the segment as it's better appreciated heard than read.
Listen to the 10 minute segment between Sam Seder and Caller Joe here

Partial transcripts below:
As is Sam's MO he encourages listeners to exercise their own judgment and due diligence rather than blind faith.

Caller Joe: I actually crossed over out of pure disgust and disdain for McCain... That's why I'm listening. I'm trying to indoctrinate myself into your kind of thinking...

Seder: Joe you don't want to be indoctrinated. What you want to do is to actually start to flex the muscles.

Sam has never been one for self aggrandizing at the expense of real issues. In this exchange, he defines his difference in priorities with the caller

Caller Joe: You liberals don't take to talk radio, if you ever listen to my man Michael Savage you'll understand that Talk Radio is all about bashing people. See that's why your ratings are not that great...you guys are trying to learn but some of you guys just don't have the knack for it...

Seder: Here's the difference between you and me Joe ...(Sam lists a series of Political issues facing the country)... so the notion as to whether or not Neal Boortz, because there is some type of distribution mechanism that favors him is doing well. I can't tell you. There isn't any part of my body small enough that could be a repository for how much I care about that. But for you it's a game. See this is the problem with the conservative mindset Joe. You just want to win.

But you don't want to win anything of substance. You just need to make yourself feel better...

True to form Joe ended with another curious headfake

You screwed Randi Rhodes, God Bless Jeff Farias and Mike Malloy. Go to hell loser!

Go to Sam Seder's official website
Watch the exchange in Video (Sammy Cam, April 10 2008) - Recommended: Watch Sam candidly during program breaks, including him excoriating his bosses off-air.

The APF - end of week roundup (May 31st)

Hello fans. Its been quite here at the APF, but rest assured there are a lot of things happening behind the curtains. To restart the engines here is the first ever end of week pundit round up.

Bill O'Reilly wins a local Emmy award in Boston and is protested by a fellow newsman.
Sam Seder will be doing his last 'Seder on Sunday' broadcast for Air America, his broadcasting future is uncertain but we hope his voice finds a new home.
Michelle Malkin is not happy with Dunkin Donuts, Rachey Ray and a certain scarf
Keith Olbermann finds a new ally in Scott Mclellan
Marc Maron winds down the funny with fellow funnymen Andy Kindler and Eugene Mirman
Al Franken is in trouble with members of his party, but not for reasons you might think
Michael considered the most Savage shock jock of them all
Stephen Colbert continues his presidential campaign in an alternate universe

4 New APF face posters

A treat for all you APF fans- Large face posters of the 4 newest APF pundits. Posters for the rest of the pundits can be found in this previous post. Feel free to use this art in anyway you deem necessary. Drop me a line if you have any suggestions or would like share some of the creative ways you've used the art.

Click to download the images:
Glenn Beck
Michael Savage
Stephanie Miller
Marc Maron

Welcome Michael Savage and Marc Maron

Its been months since we introduced 4 new pundits to the APF. Finally I'm proud to reveal the ratings of former Air America talker, Marc Maron and influential conservative talker, Michael Savage.

Seder 'cuts a promo' on the right wing (part 1 of 2)

Its not often that pundits will turn against their own kind. The talkers on the right will rarely draw attention to their liberal pundit counterparts. There could be many reasons for this:
1) The conservative audience may not be familiar with the personalities. There aren't too many prominent liberal pundits who are recognised by the right, with the exception of Keith Olbermann and Al Franken. The reference would be futile.
2) The right has dominated the radio landscape and does not feel like it needs to draw attention to the fledgling/emerging liberal talkers. Its an old boxing maxim, the champion should dismiss challengers as focusing on them elevates them to their level.
3) If liberal pundits are mentioned it is often in generic terms.

It is the left who are more likely to reference their ideological counterparts. Largely because the right has more visible and well defined targets, from Rush to Hannity and the Independent Bill O'Reilly. There are a few ways to attack a fellow pundit. Keith Olbermann takes the mocking and taunting approach. Whilst Sam Seder of Air America takes a media critique approach. Disassembling talking points and adding insults for humorous effect.

In wrestling terms, to demean someone skillfully is referred to as "Cutting a Promo". I will be highlighting some of Sam's more amusing critiques in this post. 4 different right wing targets on 4 different issues.

1) Sam Seder VS Michael Medved
Sam covering his pet topic of "Anti-gay gay republicans". Conservative pundit and movie critic Michael Medved wrote a column on the Tim Hardaway controversy. It was a piece on the unwanted distractions for a sportsman with an openly gay teammate.

Where Tim Hardaway Was Right by Michael Medved
Recent comments by retired basketball star Tim ("I hate gay people") Hardaway did serious damage to his image and career but also unwittingly raised serious cultural issues about sexuality and gender.

Hardaway appropriately apologized for his harsh remarks, but many (if not most) Americans no doubt share his instinctive reluctance to share showers and locker rooms with open homosexuals...

Sam deconstructs this perspective and offers his own theories on Medved based on his own experience meeting the man.


Listen to Sam on Medved Part 1
Listen to Sam Vs Medved Part 2

2) Sam Seder VS Michael Savage
Sam turns his attention on one of the most influential men in the punditocracy, Michael Savage. Sam analyses a monologue by Savage regarding the perceived weakness of America in the eyes of the bedouin (muslims).

Savage argues America is seen as weak because of its tolerance of gay culture, "doing to each other what is despised by 99.9% of humanity from the beginning of time until now". Savage also believes that the enemy finds comfort in seeing America cowed by women in leadership. "Seeing a loud mouthed, foul tempered woman in high places bossing men around" in reference to
Democratic Senator Barbara Boxer. Sam unpacks Savage's rationale and tries to comprehend Michael's clumsy references.

Listen to Sam take on Michael Savage. Sam also inserts a few digs at Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh.
Sam continues dissecting Savage's meme, but this time targets Glenn Beck's statements. Listen here.

Continued in part 2 of 2>>

The Unveiling of NEW APF wrestlers: Maron, Beck, Miller and Savage

The time has arrived. Without further adieu the APF presents the 4 new pundits. In the Blue corner..... In the red corner.....

Tell your friends! But make sure to keep the pundits a surprise so they can see for themselves.

Mr Pundit goes to Washington (Mr Wrestler goes to Hollywood)

I never made mention of this at the time, but Al Franken is no longer on fulltime duty as a pundit on the APF roster. January of this year, Franken announced his departure from Air America Radio and formally announced that he would run for Minnesota's Senate seat in 2008.

In wrestling its not surprising to see a successful personality leave the squared circle for the bright lights of Hollywood. Trading in their status gained from wrestling, the fanbase they've garnered and converting it into mainstream success.

Many wrestlers didn't always start off on their current career path. Duane Johnson was defensive tackle for the University of Miami. He went on to the NFL signing a 3yr contract with the Denver Broncos. He didn't play a game and was cut after 3 months. Duane then followed the paths of his father and grandfather before him and entered the wrestling business. Duane Johnson would come to be known as 'The Rock'. He would dominate the industry gaining many fans with his charisma and electric personality. He became a household name as a wrestler and moved on to the larger stage of Hollywood to headline blockbuster movies.

Al Franken started his career as one of the original writers for Saturday Night Live. He also starred on the show creating popular characters like self-help guru Stuart Smalley. Al Franken wrote many lighthearted books on Politics starting with "Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Idiot and Other Observations" (1996), a fictional Franken campaign for President in "Why Not Me?" (1999) and the best-selling "Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them: A Fair and Balanced Look at the Right" (2003). Al Franken became a mainstream celebrity as a comedic political commentator. He signed on to headline Air America Radio's flagship show early 2004. During this time Al consolidated his place as the entertainment world's 'Face' of the political left.

Al became immersed in the world of politics, traveling the country representing liberal viewpoints, rubbing shoulders with political and media players on his show and at fundraisers. As well getting accustomed to daily attacks from his opponents.

Wrestlers at the end of the day are entertainers. Its only natural they would go to Hollywood if the opportunity presented itself. They are perfectly equipped for it. Wrestlers write and recite their own lines, they're versed in timing, drama and comedy. They act live in front of packed audiences and they perform their own stunts.

Pundits/Talk Radio personalities are similarly equipped for politics. The fan base they've established can be converted easily into their voting bloc. The intimacy of the talk radio format helps in creating a feeling of trust and kinship. Radio hosts are accustomed to talking about and researching the issues as part of their daily duties. They have honed their presentation and are practiced in debating, as they engage daily with callers (aka voters) and studio guests. Its a natural transition, rather than using their influence to champion their beliefs from the sidelines. They can run for office and affect policy directly.

Besides Al Franken running for Senate. Other noteable pundits who have had political aspirations include: Michael Savage teasing a run for President. Boston radio talk-show host Chuck Morse running for congress. Former Air America host Jerry Springer nixes a run for Senate. Progressive Tony Trupiano and sometimes Ed Schultz fill-in runs for Michigan's 11th District House seat.

While Al Franken hopes Minnesota turns the comedian-cum-pundit into their next Senator. Stranger things things have happened. Minnesota after all was the place where they turned a Wrestler into a Politician.