New York Magazine - Why Neoconservative Pundits Love Jon Stewart

Jon Stewart once quipped that his audience sometimes behaved like they were watching a wrestling match during the Daily Show's interview segment.

William 'Bill' Kristol - Top wrestling heel (villain)
JON STEWART: Boy the audience, I don't know when they started thinking this was pro-wrestling. It's the strangest thing -- they literally boo and hiss and cheer like you're the Rock and I'm - you know - The Undertaker.

Surprisingly this is not the picture painted by Conservative guests who usually bring out the fireworks on the Daily Show set. A recent New York Magazine article features testimonies from prominent conservatives Cliff May, Bill Kristol and John Bolton among others commending Jon Stewart's brand of inquiry

Why Neoconservative Pundits Love Jon Stewart
"There is genuine intellectual curiosity," May told New York. "He's a staunch liberal, but he's a thoughtful liberal, and I respect that." May isn't the only conservative gushing about Stewart. While the movement professes a disdain for the "liberal media elite," it has made an exception for the true-blue 46-year-old comedian. "He always gives you a chance to answer, which some people don't do," says John Bolton, President Bush's ambassador to the United Nations and a Fox News contributor, who went on the show last month. "He's got his perspective, but he's been fair." Says Bolton: "In general, a lot of the media, especially on the left, has lost interest in debate and analysis. It has been much more ad hominem. Stewart fundamentally wants to talk about the issues. That's what I want to do."

The article goes on to contrast Jon Stewart's style with other pundits, making the case that the Daily Show format is less like pro-wrestling

Conservatives like Stewart because he's providing them a platform to reach an audience that usually tunes them out. And they often find that Stewart takes them more seriously than right-wing political hosts, who are often just using them to validate their broad positions, do. Stewart will poke fun, but he offers a good-faith debate on powder kegs — torture, abortion, nuclear weapons, health care — that explode on other networks. "Shepard Smith did the same discussion [on torture]," says May. "He kept yelling me at me: 'This is where I get off the bus! Not in my name!' He wasn't arguing with me. It was just assertions and anger. That's not what Jon deals in."

Read the complete New York Magazine article here - Why Neoconservative Pundits Love Jon Stewart

The Daily Show and CNN's 'Reliable Sources' on President Obama and Dick Cheney's duelling speeches on National Security and Torture

Jon Stewart plays clips of how the media presented the competing speeches on Terrorism by President Obama and Dick Cheney as a boxing-style showdown. Whilst the segment supports the "fighting" analogy, as you'll see forgotten 'Top Heel' Bill Kristol makes an interesting analogy of his own.

VIDEO: President Obama VS Dick Cheney on torture and National Security

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American Idealogues
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May 21, 2009: American Idealogues
JON STEWART: What gives them [media] a woody? Conflict easily juxtaposed...
--audio from media clips--
President Obama and Dick Cheney's dueling national security speeches... the sniping from both sides has turned personal... they'll go at it on the same day... this high noon duel... Barack Obama, Dick Cheney going at it in the shelter... the gloves come off.. the strongest man wins
STEWART: Is there a more apt metaphor than boxing?

Update May 26:
Howard Kurtz' hosts a panel on CNN's 'Reliable Sources' discussing the media build up of Dick Cheney and President Obama's speeches. Whilst it understandably touches on the media's hand in manufacturing a wrestling style showdown the panel also alludes to the Obama's administration manipulation of Cheney's villainry to suit their needs.

State of the Union: Reliable Sources - May 24, 2009
KURTZ: Barack Obama remains the world's biggest newspaper, a media-certified celebrity as well as a president...

But as in comic books, every superhero needs a nemesis, and the press has now cast in that Darth Vader role a man who left office four months ago as a remarkably unpopular vice president...
PAGE: It's all an Obama plot. That's what it is.
I mean, figure it out. Cheney was scheduled at least a couple of weeks ago to speak to the AEI, the conservative American Enterprise Institute. Obama, just this week, suddenly announced he's going to make this speech on that same morning...

I think the White House is deliberately trying to replace Rush Limbaugh as the unofficial head of the party with Dick Cheney.
KURTZ: Because we can't resist? Because we like the idea of these two heavyweights squaring off?
TUMULTY: And it was -- you know, the White House used the timing. They understood that it would be -- it would be played the way it was. But again, these were two separate speeches in two entirely different parts of town.

Politics and Wrestling together at last!

Its been good day for 'American Pundit Fighting'. Dean Barnett who I mentioned in an earlier post, was gracious enough to mention the APF and the 'wrestling analogy' on the air and in his blog. It was interesting audio as Hugh Hewitt and his regulars (Mark Steyn and Bill Kristol) clumsily handled wrestling references and attempts at being hip. There was even a mixing of villain metaphors as Bill Kristol was being put over as "Gangsta" after a piece from the New Republic. Or maybe its just a gimmick change?

But most of the credit goes to an associate of Kristol's on The Weekly Standard, Jonathan V. Last. In the third segment he really brought the wrestling analogy home with his knowledge of the terms and psychology. Dean and Jonathan chatted about and expanded on some of the points i've made on this blog. Dean called on Jonathan's expertise by asking which wrestlers best reflect certain pundits.

Listen and Download Dean Barnett talking wrestling and politics
Read Dean's endorsement of the wrestling analogy on his blog

Oooh Yeah! Chowdah Madness is Running Wild!!
A reader called this terrific blog post to my attention.  In it, the unidentified author noted how Bill Kristol has become punditry’s equivalent of a wrestling “heel”, antagonizing the left like a latter day Nikolai Volkoff insulting a crowd of 1980’s wrestling fans.  I was flattered by the fact that the author noticed that I played the “Mean Gene Okerlund” role while interviewing Kristol, allowing Bill to more effectively antagonize any liberals who happened to be listening.

To learn more about the link between politics and wrestling, follow the links below to acquaint yourself with the APF and its jargon:
- An introductory guide
- Glossary of terms
- APF pundit profiles
- APF Resources
- Where you can listen/watch your favorite pundits
- About the blog

William 'Bill' Kristol - Top wrestling heel (villain)

An important archetype in wrestling is the 'heel'. They are the villains who relish being despised and take great pleasure in aggravating their detractors. When I last spoke about Heels, I cited Ann Coulter as the top Heel in the Pundit business. Whilst Ann is an obvious choice for this title because of her bombast, there is one villain who is slowly garnering the reputation of 'pundit you love to hate'. He is Bill Kristol.

William Kristol is the editor-in-chief of the Weekly Standard, contributor to Fox News and Time magazine. What makes Bill an effective Heel is his reputation and influence. Unlike Ann Coulter who is notable for her purposely outrageous statements as an author and TV commentator, she does not command attention from those in power. She has been known to introduce politicians at fundraisers and her regular appearances on elite media could be viewed as tacit acceptance of her views. Ultimately however she does not influence public policy and her reputation makes her easily marginalized.

Bill Kristol is another animal all together. His influence is felt in the corridors of the White House as well as on our media landscape. Bill is a frequent contributor on Fox News panels, a regular columnist on Time Magazine and even a welcome sparring partner for (APF pundit) Jon Stewart of 'The Daily Show'.

Kristol was recently on the Hugh Hewitt show where he is a regular guest. Dean Barnett, filling in for Hugh played up Bill's reputation as heel very efficiently. Here is a partial transcript:

Dean: ...the left wing has coined you 'America's most dangerous columnist'. Are you honored by that title?
Bill: Well its an honor, but columnists aren't very dangerous... its almost like being called the most ferocious red robin in the forest or something
Dean: (laughs)
-crosstalk-
Dean: The most lethal guppy in the pond
Bill: I am a little insulted by that I guess, but look I'll take whatever I can get. Anything I do that makes left-wingers sleep worse at night makes me happy basically

It continues with Bill using a classic Heel tactic of playing up a stereotype. Just like a heel foreign wrestler infuriating the native crowd by calling them fat and lazy. Bill taunts his liberal detractors in saying

I like the thought of all these big shot liberals in Georgetown reading their Washington Post over coffee and their croissant at 9 o'clock Sunday morning and spitting up their coffee... at the headline "Bush will leave office as a winner"

Though that quote was actually a recounting of an email sent by a friend (funnily enough, Dean Barnett), its straight from the Heel playbook. Unapologetically embracing disdain which in turn encourages more antipathy for the heel to feed off.

Kristol can't take all the credit for his performance as a heel in this interview as Dean Barnett did most of the setting up in putting Kristol over as a villain. Make sure you pay attention to their exchange after the first ad break as Dean jokes with Kristol on having a musical theme to announce his entrances "just like some wrestlers..."
Listen to Dean Barnet's chat with Bill Kristol here.

The main reason that Kristol makes for a good heel is his acceptance on credible institutions like Time Magazine. But most telling is how welcomed he is on arguably the most popular political program, The Daily Show. Kristol is a favorite guest (read: Target) of Jon Stewart partly because Jon relishes in eviscerating the prominent Neo-conservative.

Although Dean Barnett as a likeminded supporter was effective in inflating Kristol's villain status. The quickest way for a Heel to raise their stature is through dueling with a hero, known a as a 'Face'. Nothing cements the reputations of heroes and villains better than a heavyweight matchup. In fact it says a lot about Kristol's character that he would appear on a show to effectively get ridiculed and criticized by the host. He most likely didn't have many friends in the audience either. To his credit, Bill always manages to get out his talking points and is often disarming in how he handles Jon with humor and self deprecating wit.

- Watch and Download Jon using Bill as a punching bag.
- Read what conservatives thought about the exchange.
- Watch and Download Bill Kristol being a bit more apprehensive than usual. Note Jon Stewart's wrestling reference midway through the interview.

Jon Stewart interviewing Bill Kristol
--crowd laughing at a preposterous Kristol statement--
BILL KRISTOL: It's nice to see all you Bush supporters here really
--crowd animated--
JON STEWART:... Boy the audience, I don't know when they started thinking this was pro-wrestling. It's the strangest thing -- they literally boo and hiss and cheer like you're the Rock and I'm - you know - The Undertaker.

Watch Heavyweight duel Number 3: "Two Jews Disagreeing". Download it here.

VIDEO: Bill Kristol on 'The Daily Show'

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Listen and Download Dean Barnett's chat with Bill Kristol here.