Showing posts with label Dean Barnett. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Dean Barnett. Show all posts

Friday, March 9, 2012

Dean Barnett, Hugh Hewitt, Mitt Romney and PunditFight

Hugh Hewitt, who has been gracious to this blog in the past recently referenced PunditFight as he laid out his delegate hypothesis to his peers. Not surprisingly its Pro-Romney.
What Just Happened? Punditmania 2012
I will test this conclusion against a line-up of guests from the Daily Mail's Toby Harnden, to Michael Barone and Conn Carroll of the Washington Examiner, AEI's James Pethokoukis, Stephen Hayes of the Weekly Standard, Chris Cillizza and Jennifer Rubin of the Washington Post, Commentary's John Podhoretz, and the original dynamic duo of on-air blogging and punditry show-downs, Glenn Reynolds and Mickey Kaus.
Interestingly on this day, I was compelled to reference an old interview I did with the late Dean Barnett, a good friend and occasional fill-in for Hugh. Though this blog has always strived to be post-partisan, I recalled Dean's statement about wrestlers warring on screen but being cordial in the lockers. How civility may not always be possible but that it wasn't as heated as the audience were led to believe. These reflected my own personal thinking during my time away from full-time pundit watching.

My published transcripts didn't say as much as I remembered however I did find some endorsements of Mitt Romney that might be relevant for this time.
A PunditFight conversation with Dean Barnett
APF: It seems to me that Mitt Romney and Fred Thompson had the most compelling conservative credentials but there was a disconnect somewhere personality wise.

DB: One of the things that still irks me, is I don’t think the true Mitt Romney ever really came through to the electorate. If it did, this is a guy who worked for a big Company. Everybody who worked with him, everybody that did business with him loved him. Universally respected, universally liked.

I remember I was in Washington during the Primary season having lunch with another conservative writer and the name Mitt Romney came up, he’s question about Mitt Romney was "how come nobody like him". The people who know him like him but its true – and I’ve overstated it a lot – bur Mitt Romney didn’t quite connect with the electorate. Part of it was Mitt’s an idea guy. Mitt’s not a pound the lectern kind of guy. He’s an idea guy. He’s a thinker. He’s not a technocrat in that he’s also warm and outgoing and engaging guy. He is at his core an idea guy, I think if ran a campaign that communicated that side of his nature rather than what he did I think it might have gone differently. I hope he stays involved in public life because he has a lot of ideas and especially with the economic problems we’re having right now. He has a lot of ideas that should be heard, it’d be nice to have someone in politics who understands something about economics.

APF: It was certainly more pronounced in the case of Fred Thompson and we’re seeing the opposite with Palin. Do you think that kind of deficiency in the minds of voters can be overcome.

DB: To use your wrestling analogy, on the one hand you’re born with what you’re born with. On the other hand there’s a craft of getting through to people. You look at some wrestlers who get so much better – look at Hulk Hogan in his initial incarnation didn’t go over at all. But in his latest incarnation after Rocky III he was the biggest thing since sliced bread. They can develop their craft to become better and better. I think the same is true of politicians. They can learn what works, they can learn what doesn’t work they stay away from their weaknesses, they can emphasize their strengths. As you point out there is no substitute for - if you’ve got someone who can deliver a speech like Barack Obama, if you’ve got someone with the charisma and personal appeal of Sarah Palin. That’s being born on third base in a political sense with that kind of talent.

Monday, October 27, 2008

Dean Barnett, 1967-2008

dean barnett, rip, death, cystic fibrosis

Some unfortunate news to report - Conservative commentator Dean Barnett has passed away. Our thoughts and prayers go to his family and loved ones.

You can view a collection of Dean Barnett tributes compiled by his colleagues at the Weekly Standard.

Anyone familiar with Dean's writing and voice knew him as an upbeat person. He was a fairminded yet passionate conservative who was adored and respected by his peers on both sides of the aisle.

Liberal blogger Glenn Greenwald had this to say a few weeks ago:
Dean is one of those very rare advocates on the Right who, despite embracing deeply misguided political views, is almost uniformly honest in his writing and quite amiable in his personal interaction. I developed somewhat of a friendship with Dean... and appeared with him a few times when he guest-hosted The Hugh Hewitt Show, where we argued vigorously though constructively -- the kind of political arguments I wish were more possible.

In 2006, Dean Barnett spoke of the condition that has now taken him -
As I mentioned yesterday and long-time readers know, I have Cystic Fibrosis. CF is a genetic disease, the number one genetic killer in the country. The average age of death is 36. I’m now 39; when I was born in 1967, the life expectancy for a newborn with CF was 8 years.

CF is a strange disease inasmuch as there are 1500 genetic variations of it. That means in an American patient population of 40,000, most “Cystics” are battling essentially different diseases.

Dean continues
... When you see death up close, a couple of things become clear. One is that we all die, and that death is just part of the deal. The other is that life is such a blessing, that’s it just so great, even though you know the inevitable might be near you still want as many bites of the apple as possible...

But regardless, this treatment has given me time - time to spend with my wife and family and friends. Time to hit golf balls (usually sideways, but even that’s alright). Time to chase my dogs around the house. Time that frankly I didn’t expect to have. There could be no greater gift, and it’s a miracle in so many ways.

dean barnett, cystic fibrosis- Read Dean's account of dealing with a chronic illness since birth. The Plucky Smart Kid with the Fatal Disease: A Life with Cystic Fibrosis.
- Learn more about Cystic Fibrosis from the Cystic Fibrosis Foundation
- If you'd like to Make a donation to advance Cystic Fibrosis research consider this

Saturday, October 11, 2008

Get well Dean Barnett, our thoughts are with you

I had the great pleasure of interviewing Conservative pundit Dean Barnett recently. Dean, an avid wrestling fan was the first person to give this humble blog national attention.

It has only recently come to my attention that he is in hospital and in need of our prayers and well wishes.

Courtesy of HotAir - Dean Barnett update
Dean Barnett update
Earlier this week, I wrote about Dean Barnett’s current struggle with cystic fibrosis and how it landed him in the ICU...

Duane Patterson e-mailed me a little earlier this evening with an update he received on Dean’s status, which sounds a little more optimistic than we’d previously heard:
Dean still in fragile state on a breathing machine in ICU. He is very willful and is fighting hard – the doctors are so impressed with him. His downward spiral stopped on Thursday, and we hope that with the continued prayers he will turn a corner this week end. He is in and out of consciousness.

- Learn about Cystic Fibrosis from the Cystic Fibrosis Foundation
- If you'd like to Make a donation to advance Cystic Fibrosis research consider this

Monday, October 6, 2008

PunditFight interview: A conversation with Dean Barnett

Sam Seder, Interview

Dean Barnett is a conservative pundit best known as Hugh Hewitt's fill-in host and staff writer for the Weekly Standard. Interestingly his rise as pundit mirrors the ascent of a rising star Vice Presidential nominee. A relative unknown, Dean was nationally introduced after being tapped by a silver-haired veteran to be his backup. Dean embodies the everyman made good, a regular "Joe six-pack abs" and Baseball dad.

Dean a lifelong Bostonian began as a businessman, running for State Representative at the age of 25. He operated a popular personal blog - SoxBlog, offering his thoughts on current affairs and his beloved Boston Red Sox. Conservative Radio Talker Hugh Hewitt would later invite Dean to be his co-blogger on When Dean saw that Hugh needed a guest host he matter-of-factly suggested "I'd like to try my hand at that" despite readily admitting he never "listened to a lot of Talk Radio". The rest as they say is history.

Our conversation is simply two regular guys talking politics, wrestling and punditry. We touch on Dean's segments with liberal blogger Glenn Greenwald and the state of partisanship, the success of John McCain and his hope for Mitt Romney.

Bonus game:
Hugh Hewitt listeners will be familiar with his patented "Barack Obama uhm counter". I've ingeniously incorporated a similar game in my conversation with Dean. A free Sarah Palin wallpaper to the person who correctly guesses the number of "uhms" uttered in our conversation. Hands on your buzzers.

Dean on the state of partisanship and why he welcomes liberals like blogger Glenn Greenwald on his show
I live in Boston which is a very liberal city. I’m pretty much a lifelong Bostonian which means that my politics is out of step with most of my neighbours, most of my friends and whatnot. I get along with people who’s politics I don’t like and don’t like my politics. So I don’t see why that can’t be the same on the Radio. Glenn Greenwald and I don’t agree with a lot politically, but I think he’s a good guy. I enjoy talking to him, I think he’s a pretty thoughtful guy. There’s no reason why we have to dislike each other even though we don’t particularly care about each other’s politics.

I’m not exactly sure how it started. It may have started when I invited him onto the show out of the clear blue sky. I’m not sure if we had exchanged any emails before then. Relatively speaking I like his blog. He’s obviously a very thoughtful, a very honest and smart guy.
I have no problem inviting guests on the show I disagree with.

Dean on the role personality and likability play in politics
To use your wrestling analogy, on the one hand you’re born with what you’re born with. On the other hand there’s a craft of getting through to people. You look at some wrestlers who get so much better – look at Hulk Hogan in his initial incarnation didn’t go over at all. But in his latest incarnation after Rocky III he was the biggest thing since sliced bread. They can develop their craft to become better and better. I think the same is true of politicians. They can learn what works, they can learn what doesn’t work they stay away from their weaknesses, they can emphasize their strengths. As you point out there is no substitute for - if you’ve got someone who can deliver a speech like Barack Obama, if you’ve got someone with the charisma and personal appeal of Sarah Palin. That’s being born on third base in a political sense with that kind of talent.

You look at a guy like John McCain who’s gone as far as he has, which is very far without any of those talents. But there’s a huge advantage for someone like Obama or Palin actually having those gifts.

Read full transcript here

- Listen to Dean Barnett endorsing this blog's contention that Bill Kristol is a wrestling-style villain (heel)
- View Dean Barnett's Pundit Profile

Sunday, September 28, 2008

Dean Barnett interview coming soon

I recently had the fortune of interviewing APF pundit Dean Barnett, occasional fill-in host for Hugh Hewitt and staff writer for the Weekly Standard. We talked about partisanship, his experience running for office and the two McCains (Republican Primary McCain and General Election McCain).

Longtime readers might know that Dean was the first pundit to give this site national exposure. Dean like his stablemate Hugh Hewitt are big fans of wrestling and have been very supportive of the site. Last year Dean welcomed his colleague from the Weekly Standard, Jonathan V. Last to talk wrestling and politics for an entire segment.

Our discussion had an interesting dynamic as Dean understands wrestling and has clearly read the blog. Whilst I asked vague questions you'll hear an astute Dean shoehorning wrestling references in his response. Flattering but you'll have to be the judge on whether that's a good thing or not.
Transcript and audio coming soon.

While you wait, I present the APF's first triple-outfit pundit. Toggle through the costumes using the buttons on the left wall. This new variant has Dean as the first APF pundit with a sculpted physique. As you'll see the others don't match up nearly as well.

Thursday, September 11, 2008

Team Hewitt: Hugh Hewitt, Dean Barnett, Mark Steyn

mccain, lieberman, graham, edge, hawkins, ryder
I've been meaning to introduce stables to the APF for a while now, I proudly present the first of many. In wrestling, a stable is simply defined as "an alliance of like-minded individuals". In political terms there aren't too many solid alliances, only the John McCain/Joe Lieberman/ Lindsey Graham triumvirate come to mind.

Pundits have their own alliances, mostly by virtue of it being a small tight-knit community. I've always wanted to delve into the relationships formed within political media, how it affects their professional conduct. This was partially discussed during the Imus controversy when the "boy's club" were divided into those who stuck by their buddy or threw him under the bus.

First cab off the rank: Team Hewitt
Don't know how Dean Barnett and Mark Steyn will take to being under Hugh. Of course if there's any dissension they could just turn on him and ambush Hugh from behind.

- There is a neat toggle on the bottom left corner, click on it for a surprise.

Read previous Hugh Hewitt Posts here
Read previous Dean Barnett Posts here
Read previous Mark Steyn Posts here

Update: I had the fortune of interviewing Dean Barnett recently. Tune in to for the audio and transcript of our interview. We covered a few things including Dean's early political career, partisanship and John McCain.

Monday, August 18, 2008

PunditFight: Hugh Hewitt's protege?

In recent days Hugh Hewitt has given this blog a ratings boost. Hugh has played the Donald Trump role, elevating the blog with his esteemed association and bringing with it more mainstream attention.

However reading posts like this, people might start turning on Hugh and the blog if there is a perception PunditFight is seen as Hugh's deranged protege.
Cicero writes:
Slow news day today, Hugh?
Looks like a rather nondescript blog to me. But I suppose I shouldn't be surprised.

Once again, allow me to provide some examples of what your readers SHOULD be reading...
Not unlike the Presidential candidates, at this point it's all about maximising the attention. Plotting the rollout of content so as to stay in the news cycle for as long as possible. Stay tuned for some new animations, including a tag team of everyone's favourite Boston/Cleveland connection.

- Hugh Hewitt endorses 'PunditFight'
- Introducing 'Team Hugh Hewitt' - Hewitt, Barnett and Steyn

Wednesday, May 21, 2008

Hugh Hewitt on how Obama talks - Cadence over content

On the May 19th Edition of his show, Hugh Hewitt spent some time dissecting Obama's way of speaking. He shared with his audience what he considered Obama's "poker tell". Hugh contends that when Obama is nervous or lacks confidence on a subject he will hyper-punctuate. Using the rhythm of his voice to feign poise, what Hugh calls "Cadence over content".
I just love listening to this guy. Now that you have the tell down and you're listening to the number of pauses... there's nothing being said here, it's a cadence. It's just the cadence that's appealing. Cadence over content. He also swallows some syllables, I'm just listening here technically... he turns this stuff on and off...

Hugh labeling it a "poker tell" might be an overstatement. People generally hesitate when they are talking extemporaneously. Heavily scrutinized politicians moreso. George W Bush has a similar tic. It is noteworthy mainly because Obama is seen as a brilliant orator but considered mortal without a script. Hugh was closer to the mark when insisting Obama was measuring his words after a string of political gaffes and scrutiny over earlier statements regarding meeting with America's enemies. The best part of the audio is Hugh's Obama impersonation, talking in a mock rhythmic tone.
Listen and download the entire Hugh Hewitt segment here
Skip to 8m 33s for Hugh's Obama impression

The May 19th Edition of Time Magazine also touches on the subject of Obama's speaking style
Obama: How He Learned to Win
Obama, meanwhile, had junked his starchy speaking style in favor of something that helped him shore up his base. Dan Shomon, his campaign manager against Rush, believes Obama learned the art of public speaking at the scores of black churches he visited in 2000, absorbing the rhythm and flourishes of pastors and watching how their congregations reacted. David Mendell notes in his biography of Obama how the candidate would "drop into a Southern drawl, pepper his prose with a neatly placed 'ya'll' and call up various black colloquialisms." He rarely missed a chance to speak at Sunday services in black churches

Being well-spoken and showing poise are effective ways of projecting leadership, valuable qualities that can't be faked but can be developed and improved upon. In politics sometimes you need to attract people by talking the talk only then will you be given the chance to show you can also walk the walk.

Just a bonus feature for the wrestling fans. Like Hugh impersonating Obama's sometimes plodding delivery, WWE wrestler John Cena mocked rival Randy Orton's monotone speech in a recent episode of RAW.
Click to view video: John Cena subtly mocking Randy Orton
Cena's impersonation begins at the 20s mark

Saturday, November 3, 2007

Congratulations RedSox and welcome Dean Barnett

Truth be told i'm not the greatest baseball fan but congratulations to the Redsox for winning the World Series once again. Speaking of Bostonians and teams who love to be hated I'm proud to introduce the latest APF pundit - Dean Barnett.

This characterisation still needs a bit of work. I'll beef Dean up considerably as some of the latest video I've seen of him has Dean hulked up. I don't think i've got the jawline down yet either and the cap... lets just say its still a work in progress. I had a few suggestions for the special move which included the 'Boston Strangler', 'Boston Crab' and 'Beantown Blast'

APF readers will be aware that Dean actually featured this humble blog on his show when he was filling in for Hugh Hewitt.
The old post can be found here.
I have edited the original 35 minute audio archive into a shorter 7min snippet containing just the Wrestling/Politics discussion between Dean and Jonathan V Last.
Find the snippet here

Read the Original dean Barnett Post
Read Dean Barnett featuring the APF on his blog
Listen to Dean talk about the APF - Long version (35min+)
Listen to Dean talk about the APF - edited version (7min+)

Friday, August 31, 2007

Promoting Dean Barnett

If you'd like to promote Dean Barnett's introduction as an APF wrestler. You may use this image to feature on your blog. If you'd like the code for the Animation as seen in the post previous, kindly email me at pundit.fight(a)

Dean Barnett heel
'Mean Dean' Barnett

Tuesday, August 28, 2007

Dean Barnett: The newest APF member

We have some exciting news APF fans, Dean Barnett has been announced as the latest member of the American Pundit Fighting roster. Dean's profile** is well underway and now i'm calling on the APF audience to determine his vital stats.

What is Dean's orientation? Is he a 'heel' or 'face'. A heel is a villain, someone you love to hate. A face is a heroic figure, someone you look up to and root for to win. Whilst a pundit's orientation is determined by the audience, it is actually manufactured by the pundit's chosen persona and delivery style. Ann Coulter is a good example of someone hated by the pundit's own design.

What is Dean's special move?
What specialty manouver would Dean use. Make sure you come up with a catchy name.

What is Dean's Pop rating? A 'pop' is the amount of love a pundit gets. The gushing praise and cheer that greets their entrance. This is the amount of positive blog postings and exposure Dean would get from the blogosphere. It might be the ratings hike that occurs when he fills in for APF partner Hugh Hewitt on the Radio.

What is Dean's Heat Rating? How much animosity is directed towards Dean. Does he get much negative exposure on the blogosphere. Does he get a lot of hate mail? Does he get dissed by other pundits.

What is Dean's Charm rating? How charming is the man?

Remember whilst a 'pop' is positive, it is not necessarily just reserved for 'faces'. Nor is 'heat' simply reserved for 'heels'. Take Rush Limbaugh as an example, Rush is adored by millions of conservatives and he is widely considered the most influential pundit of all time. But consider that he is also passionately demonised and despised by the left. His ability to engender such hatred with one community whilst being revered by another makes him a successful pundit. He is talked about and he is listened to. He is known. Charm plays a big factor in this.

Cast your votes by emailing me at pundit.fight(at)
or simply comment below

For more information on APF terminology click here.
To reference other pundit profiles click here.
See the complete list of profiles on our myspace page.

If you're not familiar with Dean Barnett:
Find his old blog here
Find his new blog on TownHall here
Trawl through the Townhall archives to find Dean filling in for Hugh on the Radio

**Its been brought to my attention that Dean prefers a low profile as evidenced by the lack of photos on google/images. The only picture i could find was a deliberate wide shot. Fingers crossed my pundit bears some likeness.

Friday, August 24, 2007

Politics and Wrestling together at last!

Its been good day for 'American Pundit Fighting'. Dean Barnett who I mentioned in an earlier post, was gracious enough to mention the APF and the 'wrestling analogy' on the air and in his blog. It was interesting audio as Hugh Hewitt and his regulars (Mark Steyn and Bill Kristol) clumsily handled wrestling references and attempts at being hip. There was even a mixing of villain metaphors as Bill Kristol was being put over as "Gangsta" after a piece from the New Republic. Or maybe its just a gimmick change?

But most of the credit goes to an associate of Kristol's on The Weekly Standard, Jonathan V. Last. In the third segment he really brought the wrestling analogy home with his knowledge of the terms and psychology. Dean and Jonathan chatted about and expanded on some of the points i've made on this blog. Dean called on Jonathan's expertise by asking which wrestlers best reflect certain pundits.

Listen and Download Dean Barnett talking wrestling and politics
Read Dean's endorsement of the wrestling analogy on his blog
Oooh Yeah! Chowdah Madness is Running Wild!!
A reader called this terrific blog post to my attention.  In it, the unidentified author noted how Bill Kristol has become punditry’s equivalent of a wrestling “heel”, antagonizing the left like a latter day Nikolai Volkoff insulting a crowd of 1980’s wrestling fans.  I was flattered by the fact that the author noticed that I played the “Mean Gene Okerlund” role while interviewing Kristol, allowing Bill to more effectively antagonize any liberals who happened to be listening.

To learn more about the link between politics and wrestling, follow the links below to acquaint yourself with the APF and its jargon:
- An introductory guide
- Glossary of terms
- APF pundit profiles
- APF Resources
- Where you can listen/watch your favorite pundits
- About the blog

Friday, August 17, 2007

William 'Bill' Kristol - Top wrestling heel (villain)

An important archetype in wrestling is the 'heel'. They are the villains who relish being despised and take great pleasure in aggravating their detractors. When I last spoke about Heels, I cited Ann Coulter as the top Heel in the Pundit business. Whilst Ann is an obvious choice for this title because of her bombast, there is one villain who is slowly garnering the reputation of 'pundit you love to hate'. He is Bill Kristol.

William Kristol is the editor-in-chief of the Weekly Standard, contributor to Fox News and Time magazine. What makes Bill an effective Heel is his reputation and influence. Unlike Ann Coulter who is notable for her purposely outrageous statements as an author and TV commentator, she does not command attention from those in power. She has been known to introduce politicians at fundraisers and her regular appearances on elite media could be viewed as tacit acceptance of her views. Ultimately however she does not influence public policy and her reputation makes her easily marginalized.

Bill Kristol is another animal all together. His influence is felt in the corridors of the White House as well as on our media landscape. Bill is a frequent contributor on Fox News panels, a regular columnist on Time Magazine and even a welcome sparring partner for (APF pundit) Jon Stewart of 'The Daily Show'.

Kristol was recently on the Hugh Hewitt show where he is a regular guest. Dean Barnett, filling in for Hugh played up Bill's reputation as heel very efficiently. Here is a partial transcript:
Dean: ...the left wing has coined you 'America's most dangerous columnist'. Are you honored by that title?
Bill: Well its an honor, but columnists aren't very dangerous... its almost like being called the most ferocious red robin in the forest or something
Dean: (laughs)
Dean: The most lethal guppy in the pond
Bill: I am a little insulted by that I guess, but look I'll take whatever I can get. Anything I do that makes left-wingers sleep worse at night makes me happy basically
It continues with Bill using a classic Heel tactic of playing up a stereotype. Just like a heel foreign wrestler infuriating the native crowd by calling them fat and lazy. Bill taunts his liberal detractors in saying
I like the thought of all these big shot liberals in Georgetown reading their Washington Post over coffee and their croissant at 9 o'clock Sunday morning and spitting up their coffee... at the headline "Bush will leave office as a winner"
Though that quote was actually a recounting of an email sent by a friend (funnily enough, Dean Barnett), its straight from the Heel playbook. Unapologetically embracing disdain which in turn encourages more antipathy for the heel to feed off.

Kristol can't take all the credit for his performance as a heel in this interview as Dean Barnett did most of the setting up in putting Kristol over as a villain. Make sure you pay attention to their exchange after the first ad break as Dean jokes with Kristol on having a musical theme to announce his entrances "just like some wrestlers..."
Listen to Dean Barnet's chat with Bill Kristol here.

The main reason that Kristol makes for a good heel is his acceptance on credible institutions like Time Magazine. But most telling is how welcomed he is on arguably the most popular political program, The Daily Show. Kristol is a favorite guest (read: Target) of Jon Stewart partly because Jon relishes in eviscerating the prominent Neo-conservative.

Although Dean Barnett as a likeminded supporter was effective in inflating Kristol's villain status. The quickest way for a Heel to raise their stature is through dueling with a hero, known a as a 'Face'. Nothing cements the reputations of heroes and villains better than a heavyweight matchup. In fact it says a lot about Kristol's character that he would appear on a show to effectively get ridiculed and criticized by the host. He most likely didn't have many friends in the audience either. To his credit, Bill always manages to get out his talking points and is often disarming in how he handles Jon with humor and self deprecating wit.

- Watch and Download Jon using Bill as a punching bag.
- Read what conservatives thought about the exchange.
- Watch and Download Bill Kristol being a bit more apprehensive than usual. Note Jon Stewart's wrestling reference midway through the interview.
Jon Stewart interviewing Bill Kristol
--crowd laughing at a preposterous Kristol statement--
BILL KRISTOL: It's nice to see all you Bush supporters here really
--crowd animated--
JON STEWART:... Boy the audience, I don't know when they started thinking this was pro-wrestling. It's the strangest thing -- they literally boo and hiss and cheer like you're the Rock and I'm - you know - The Undertaker.
Watch Heavyweight duel Number 3: "Two Jews Disagreeing". Download it here.

VIDEO: Bill Kristol on 'The Daily Show'
The Daily Show With Jon StewartMon - Thurs 11p / 10c

Daily Show Full EpisodesPolitical HumorTea Party

Listen and Download Dean Barnett's chat with Bill Kristol here.